GPS Units

[Dave]

Any thoughts. I've been looking at them, they are pretty pricey. It really seems like wise investment in the grand scheme of things. I'm kind of old school, compass and map/chart, but we're not in the woods anymore, so I guess it might be time to look into it. Any opinions on a particular model? Simpler is good.

[getnoutside]

Dave,

I have a Garmin E-trek Summit. Frankly, it's horrible in the woods. Under any type of tree cover, it struggles to get any type of signal. On the water, the signal is fine, but the screen is so small, and the greyscale so hard to read in the sun, it's not very practical while underway. It's good for collecting data to refer to later. And, if you got lost and were on calm water (i.e. didn't need to paddle for stability) it would be useful.

[Chip]

I have the Garmin Etrex Legend. I haven't used it alot but it has done well in the woods. It is a pretty popular affordable model for paddlers. It can download maps, which I recommend you get. It goes for about $150.

[pat]

I haven't used it alot

If you would BRING it from time to time, maybe you'd USE it a lot!

[Chip]

It's going in my dry bag for the paddling season. I loaded Eastern Mass and part of Rhode Island so I am ready to go.

[Ron]

Is that so if you get blown really off course you will know where you are?

[Dave]

I will check out the Etrex. Is it waterproof? I was looking at them at West Marine, perhaps that is why they were so expensive, most of those were waterproof. I suppose there is some software to install? A friend actually gave us a software package for christmas a couple years ago with really nice topo maps of the whole north east, at least the ones on the box look nice, I haven't installed it. We only have a standard black and white printer. I know that it says GPS Compatible, or something to that effect on the box, so I think I could be in really good shape as far as maps to upload. Charts I'm guessing I would have to buy. I'll have to actually open the cellophane and check it out, I hadn't even thought of that until you mentioned uploading maps.

Somebody emailed me an mpeg of an orca flying out of the water and landing on a kayak yesterday, looks like it was filmed from a whale watch boat. It's really incredible footage, any of you seen it? I don't have a url, just the file, or I would paste a link, but it is really cool.

[Chip]

The Legend is waterproof to 3 feet. Some have had different results. Only Mapsource maps can be downloaded to Garmin GPSs. You can download waypoints from other mapping software, not maps. Mapsource also sells Chart software.
I saw that orca footage last year. I think it is a fake.

[Birdseye]

I saw that orca footage last year. I think it is a fake.

I heard it was a fake too but if so, they did a good job with it.

[Dave]

Well, fake or no, it gives you one more reason to consider learning a roll.

[BobV]

Three inputs on the GPS issue (based on hiking, not boating experience.)

1) If you get/have one USE IT A LOT. They aren't any good AFTER you have a problem, you need to use them often so you will REALLY know how to use it if you need it. (Trying to read the instruction book, use the GPS, and keep from rolling at the same time probably won't work.)

2) They are (at least can be) a bit complicated. Don't expect to turn it on and just have it tell you which direction to paddle to get home. Like many 'simple' electronics products they have few buttons and many, many functions. They aren't always intuitive. Again, practice with it so you can do what you want when you need to.

3) Lastly, they can be a life saver. If you have it, and know how to use it, it can tell you where you are, and which way to paddle to safety. (If you're in Boston harbor and a fog rolls in, West will get you to 'land'. A GPS can let you choose which piece of 'land' to run into.)

[Dave]

Thank you for the info. Still haven't gotten around to checking out that software.

Bob. I know what you mean about using it. A friend lets me borrow his GPS unit when we go hiking. I throw it in my bag for emergencies, the few times I've taken it out to play with it, I can't figure the darned thing out!

[N3303J]

Garmin GPS76S is a great unit. It's waterproof and floats. The screen is big enough that downloaded maps are readable. The processor is quick and the unit does an excellent job of finding itself in the open, it continues to do well in the trees. Unit has tons of features that make it useful for car/bike/hike/motorcycle trips too. It computes tides, sunrise/sunset, moon phases. trip speeds, averages, times etc. It interfaces with most any Windows computer and can upload trip data back to map software on the computer. It is pricey but the extreme versatility should keep it useful for a number of years. It's poor man's cousin is the GPS72 which has many of the features, less internal memory and about half the price tag. It would make a nice second choice of cost was a major decision maker. I personally was not that impressed with the Color versions of these units. Color did not add readability or understandability. The color screen was less sharp and a wee bit smaller.

[Dave]

I'll check that one out. I got an EMS gift certificate for my birthday, so I'll probably want to get something that they carry. I'm thinking this weekend I might check out what they have, I'll definitely look for this one. Is it pretty easy to operate? Sounds like a lot of functions, useful stuff too, I' guessing it'll take some practice to figure out.

Oh yeah BTW, Welcome!

[Finn McCool]

Hey everyone,

If you are looking to evaluate some of the GPS units...and if you want to learn to work the things, you may be interested in a program being put on at World's End this coming Saturday. The Trustees of Reservations are co-sponsoring.

http://www.thetrustees.org/pages/5646_i ... gation.cfm

I, for one, plan to be there.

[bhotrum]

For those of you needing low cost GPS, speed tracking of your cruising speeds, ave speeds, distance, and mappable routes taken, as well as a compass, calories burnt and mileage over a year's period - I highly recommend the Garmin Forerunner 101 and 201 Series. I use it for paddling (in a tortuga bag on deck with clear window) and on my mountain bike. For 129 bucks you can track speed, gps, map of your route taken, distance covered, waypoints etc. Great little unit. It tells me I do 5.7 miles an hour average with a high speed of 9 miles/hr in my Neck Elaho on flat water. The unit also fixes perfect time with GPS and has tons of other neat little functions for paddling, mountain biking, trail running etc. Hat's off to Garmin for making a nice product. Runs on 2 AA and has wrist strap.

[pat]

For 129 bucks you can track speed, gps, map of your route taken, distance covered, waypoints etc. Great little unit.

Sue and I both have birthdays coming up this month. Maybe we can each buy a half of one for each other!

It tells me I do 5.7 miles an hour average with a high speed of 9 miles/hr in my Neck Elaho on flat water.

9 mph?? Good god, my top speed so far is only 6.3.

BTW - does that unit have a way to suspend recording while you're stopped? Chip has one of the Garmin units, and if you pull up onto land for a while to rest, it counts that against your average speed.

[pat]

Are there any stores locally that have a decent selections of GPS units to look at? I just checked around, and that Garmin Forerunner can be had for a little over $80 plus shipping on the net. However, the specs indicate that it's a <i>very</i> small unit. My old eyes probably wouldn't be able to read much on the tiny display. I'd like to go someplace where I could see it in person before I make my choice.

[getnoutside]

Boats US in weymouth has a pretty good selection.

[Dave]

I got a Garmin Legend @ EMS a couple weeks ago. Not really a great selection, but I had a gift certificate. West Marine also has a pretty good selection.

[chpaton]

Pat:

9 mph?? Good god, my top speed so far is only 6.3.

Re: boat speed - it's length and thickness that count and they DO matter . That Necky is 3' longer and at least 2" skinnier than your Tsunami. Also sounds like that Necky has a very fit "engine".

[bhotrum]

Pat, if you like shoot me your email addy and I will send some digital pics of the Forerunner's functions and face dials close up, a couple neat things about the unit are the following: maps routes, tracks constant as well as your topped out lap speed, distance paddled or (run, biked etc.), marks locations , has a swiveling constant compass face arrow and will also give you the entire last years of workouts, miles paddled, waypoints, gps co-ords etc., calories burnt, it will even give you the time of day according to last fixed GPS position which constantly updates. For 80 bucks you will love this thing, but since it is not designed for submersion, make sure you have a clear windowed tortuga roll up back like MEC, or Voyaguer's to see it through the window.

Today I did pull 8.9 miles per hour against a 1.5 knot current at top speed, but my normal paddle cadence is about 4.5 to 5.4 miles per hour. I limit my paddles to usually 2-3 hrs at a fitness pace, so over the full day this would probably drop to 2-3kts per hour to conserve energy. The boat i have is quick though, so my defender in the posting may have a point- 22" beam and 17 feet is nimble and it will throw wake at 4-5 knots with a fast paddling cadence. My only wish is to upgrade to the glass Elaho HV but they are tough to find. The negative of this boat...not rollable at all due to 14.5" inch cockpit depth and high back band, you may injure your spine attempting a roll in this config. So speed is sacrificed for rollability I would assume.

Again, shoot me an email addy and I will be pleased to show you how the Forerunner compares and functions to other much more $$$ devices.

[pat]

Underneath everyone's post is a link to their email address (if they've provided it). Mine is: pat@ssih.com

I think I've got to research the GPS units a bit before I make a decision and play with a few at stores. I'd like to get a fairly large display, but for a reasonable amount of cash.

[Dave]

Pat:

9 mph?? Good god, my top speed so far is only 6.3.

Re: boat speed - it's length and thickness that count and they DO matter . That Necky is 3' longer and at least 2" skinnier than your Tsunami. Also sounds like that Necky has a very fit "engine".

I can vouch for that! In my case it sure isn't skill or fitness! I clocked an 11 MPH top speed out in Menemsha last week. Might just have been a malfunction.

[chpaton]

Dave, Pat:

Ya gotta remember GPS units DO NOT measure boat speed - i.e. the speed your boat is moving thru the water - it measures speed as in the the time it takes you to travel from point a to point b. If you are paddling at 5 miles an hour pace (which is a fairly ambitious pace for most casual paddlers) and a 3 mile per hour current is flowing in the direction you are going and a brisk wind is at your back you might register a GPS reading of 11 mph.

Ultimately the speed of your kayak is limited by hydrodynamics. Seakayaks are displacement hulls, and maximum theoretical hull speed (speed of the boat thru the water) is determined by a fairly straight forward formula: 1.34 times the square root of the boat's water line length = max. hull speed in knots.

Estimating that the LWL of Dave's Necky Chatham 18 to be about 16' 6" the max. hull speed is 5.44 knots or 6.26 mph.

Estimating the LWL of Pat's Tsunami to be about 13'6" the max. hull speed is 4.92 knots or 5.66 mph

This isn't to say you can't paddle the boat faster than the max. hull speed - you can but it takes a lot of extra effort to do so, and a great effort to sustain speed greater than hull speed for any lenght of time . Of course wind and current can greatly aid your effort if they are in the right direction.

As far as kayaking is concerned GPS are useful navigational tools, but if boat speed is your thrill, you need a different kind of boat

[ExGman]

Greetings - I'm apparently the newest registered member of the group (as of 9/8/05), and while I don't have a lot of kayaking experience, I do have a lot of experience using Garmin GPS units. Over the past six years, I've owned three different units...1) III+, 2) E-Trex Vista, and 3) GPSMAP 76CS. I've used all of them for sailing, hiking, canoeing and auto travel. All were said to be waterproof, but I found that ocean water can find its way into the cases of the units, especially the battery case.

I now take my GPSMAP 76CS out on my kayak, but every time I do, it's covered in a "DryPak" unit...essentially a small, sealed bag with a lanyard, suitable to attaching to a deck line. I have a similar bag for my supposedly waterproof VHF handheld (this one made by "AquaSafe").

Both bags are flexible enough to make operation of the units simple. The VHF is still very audible within the bag.

John