Boat Recommendation?
Moderator: Chip
Boat Recommendation?
New member looking for advice on buying a day touring boat. I've been paddling in rivers and lakes with 9.5' rec boats for a few years and now I want to move up to coastal rivers and bays. I'm 6' tall and about 210 pounds. Not much money to spend - want to stay under $1000. So, I'm considering 14.5' plastic boats. So far my preference is the Old Town Cayuga 146. Others I've looked at are the Necky Manitou 14 and Wilderness Systems Tsunami 140. I hope to visit Billington Sea Kayaks this weekend but they don't have all 3 of these models. Would anyone like to share some advice?
Those boats are all going to be very slow for you for touring, and your ability will soon grow to the point that they will hold you back. I think your plan to go to Billington and demo is a good one. Find something plastic (keeps the cost down) at least 16' long and around 24 wide - a used Capella or Tempest perhaps? But demoing many boats will soon tell you what you feel good in. My personal preference is for skeg rather than rudder - less likely to break when you need it, and a cleaner deckline - but try both and see what you think.
Have fun, and let us know what you have found that interests you!
Kate
Have fun, and let us know what you have found that interests you!
Kate
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Finn McCool
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:03 pm
- Location: Cohasset, MA
I'm a case study of Kate's point:
Now in my third season with a Tsunami 145 and definitely feel limited by it. It's great in all regards but speed and, perhaps, windage. The 24.5 inch beam makes it very stable, and it handles conditions remarkably well. But its just not designed for cutting through the water with low resistance. I'm an average-size guy, and I think the boat is actually too voluminous for me; when I load the compartments up, speed improves noticably. All this doesn't really bother me when I'm out with my wife or son in our other Tsunami, but when I head out with this bunch I have to work a lot harder just to keep up.
A good contrast:
I had no problem keeping up with the group on our recent excursion to the Harbor Islands all the way out to The Graves because the conditions were ideal and I had some gear in the front compartment, to maximize the waterline. I had to paddle pretty hard, but it was a great workout and a lot of fun. Forward to last week's Thursday night paddle at Hingham. Windy, quartering seas, some confused waves, and empty compartments. I did fine, but it was work to keep the boat moving and on track; it weathercocked all over the place and just banged from one thing to another while the longer, sleeker boats were in their element slicing through the waves. I was in the sweep position as usual.
That said, the Tsunami 145 is an outstanding boat for camping and general touring. I'm planning to keep it, but I'm in the hunt to fund a boat at least 16.5, but more likely 17 to 18 Ft and no wider than 21-22 inches, designed for longer crossings in real conditions. I'm also seriously considering a self-build, perhaps a CLC Shearwater Hybrid, a Night Heron, Pygmy Arctic Tern or a Coho. Thats all another matter for now
Simply put: if you really want to get into sea kayaking, you will be surprised at how quickly you will outgrow a 14 foot boat.
My two cents, but its real experience.
Good luck.
Now in my third season with a Tsunami 145 and definitely feel limited by it. It's great in all regards but speed and, perhaps, windage. The 24.5 inch beam makes it very stable, and it handles conditions remarkably well. But its just not designed for cutting through the water with low resistance. I'm an average-size guy, and I think the boat is actually too voluminous for me; when I load the compartments up, speed improves noticably. All this doesn't really bother me when I'm out with my wife or son in our other Tsunami, but when I head out with this bunch I have to work a lot harder just to keep up.
A good contrast:
I had no problem keeping up with the group on our recent excursion to the Harbor Islands all the way out to The Graves because the conditions were ideal and I had some gear in the front compartment, to maximize the waterline. I had to paddle pretty hard, but it was a great workout and a lot of fun. Forward to last week's Thursday night paddle at Hingham. Windy, quartering seas, some confused waves, and empty compartments. I did fine, but it was work to keep the boat moving and on track; it weathercocked all over the place and just banged from one thing to another while the longer, sleeker boats were in their element slicing through the waves. I was in the sweep position as usual.
That said, the Tsunami 145 is an outstanding boat for camping and general touring. I'm planning to keep it, but I'm in the hunt to fund a boat at least 16.5, but more likely 17 to 18 Ft and no wider than 21-22 inches, designed for longer crossings in real conditions. I'm also seriously considering a self-build, perhaps a CLC Shearwater Hybrid, a Night Heron, Pygmy Arctic Tern or a Coho. Thats all another matter for now
Simply put: if you really want to get into sea kayaking, you will be surprised at how quickly you will outgrow a 14 foot boat.
My two cents, but its real experience.
Good luck.
Alla har rätt till min åsikt!
To add to Kate's list of plastic boats to try I'd suggest also trying the Necky Chatham 17 and the Valley Avocet or Aquanaut
I highly suggest buying something you can grow into skill wise which in many cases will save you from having to buy another boat too soon.
Good luck.
I highly suggest buying something you can grow into skill wise which in many cases will save you from having to buy another boat too soon.
Good luck.
P&H Quest LV - Yellow/white/blue
At 6' and 210 lbs, the Avocet will be too small for him. Aquanaut and Chatham good choices though, agreed (do they come in plastic? he needs to keep cost down).
And don't be too enamored with stability. Primary stability is not necessarily a requirement. Secondary stability is much more useful, IMO. A boat with high primary stability and poor secondary is a boat that is unpredictable on edge and probably less maneuverable.
It's confusing, I know. Demo demo demo.
K
And don't be too enamored with stability. Primary stability is not necessarily a requirement. Secondary stability is much more useful, IMO. A boat with high primary stability and poor secondary is a boat that is unpredictable on edge and probably less maneuverable.
It's confusing, I know. Demo demo demo.
K
Definitely agree with all above!!! I stepped out of a rec boat to a tsunami 140 (smaller paddler) and LOVED IT!!! That lasted 6 months when my fine tuning of paddling preference got me to 'big water', and more than (close) off shore paddling. Basically, I outgrew the boat skill wise and preference. I still have my tsunami and love it for 'rivers' - at 14 ft it's not too long + sometimes large lakes I use but NEVER in the ocean any more... as Finn acknowledged, it's duable but 'a lot of work' to keep up... I found it took the FUN out of the paddle.
Demo, demo, demo... be sure to buy a boat you can 'grow into' skill wise... or you'll be looking for another in the near future!
As the summer closes... check out second hand boats... I recommend going to the kayaking club sites and outfitters for people doing 'trade ups'/changes... hopefully, you can strike a good deal... but do your demoing first!
Demo, demo, demo... be sure to buy a boat you can 'grow into' skill wise... or you'll be looking for another in the near future!
As the summer closes... check out second hand boats... I recommend going to the kayaking club sites and outfitters for people doing 'trade ups'/changes... hopefully, you can strike a good deal... but do your demoing first!
Still Mind, Relaxed Breath, Pure Attention...
Paddling is Great Therapy!
Paddling is Great Therapy!
I'm going to echo the recurring theme here.
Demo, demo, demo. You will only know how a boat feels by getting in and paddling. If you are seriously about paddling, you will outgrow a rec boat quickly. I found that out the hard way.
The same boat can feel different to five different people.
Look for a good used boat, you will always be able to paddle it first before you by. Stay with a recognized name so that you can always sell it if you change your mind.
Mike
Demo, demo, demo. You will only know how a boat feels by getting in and paddling. If you are seriously about paddling, you will outgrow a rec boat quickly. I found that out the hard way.
The same boat can feel different to five different people.
Look for a good used boat, you will always be able to paddle it first before you by. Stay with a recognized name so that you can always sell it if you change your mind.
Mike
Hi gang, greetings from the Land of the Midnight Sun, there is some good advice being distributed here. I'm probably the least helpful person when it comes to recommending a boat. I haven't paddled a boat yet that I haven't enjoyed in some capacity. I will echo an opinion I've posted before, people's opinions are often very biased in the direction towards the make and model that they own, which makes perfect sense for many reasons but, ultimately no two people are alike. Your body type, physical limitations or abilities, skill set, purpose for paddling, pocketbook, etc. is going to play a larger role in your decision. If, when I was starting out, I had listened to most of the advice I was getting, I would be in a 70 lb. very unstable boat with a cockpit I couldn't fit in, with the encouraging words from so many that were pushing this style of boat "oh, you'll get used to it, you'll grow into it." My motto has been "politely listen then ignore" ever since.
Demo, demo, demo is the way to go, I agree the best place to do this is at Billington Sea, Doug Grey is the most fair, honest, patient, generous person in the industry. I strongly suggest people give him their business. He is in it for the love of the sport and for the satisfaction of his customer base. He has quietly supported dozens of non-profits like the NSRWA, the Jones River Watershed Association, Y Camps, etc. for years. The added value of doing business with Billington trumps saving a few bucks at the box stores who by and large don't care about you in the least after they take your money. I urge people to think about this if they use Billington to demo boats and then after using that service, try to go bargain hunting elsewhere.
Anyway, guilty again for finding fault with people with strong opinions and then sharing my own strong opinions.
Demo, demo, demo is the way to go, I agree the best place to do this is at Billington Sea, Doug Grey is the most fair, honest, patient, generous person in the industry. I strongly suggest people give him their business. He is in it for the love of the sport and for the satisfaction of his customer base. He has quietly supported dozens of non-profits like the NSRWA, the Jones River Watershed Association, Y Camps, etc. for years. The added value of doing business with Billington trumps saving a few bucks at the box stores who by and large don't care about you in the least after they take your money. I urge people to think about this if they use Billington to demo boats and then after using that service, try to go bargain hunting elsewhere.
Anyway, guilty again for finding fault with people with strong opinions and then sharing my own strong opinions.
"Adventure is worthwhile in itself." - Amelia Earhart
Charles River Canoe & Kayak is also a great place to demo boats, they have a huge selection and are open 7 days a week. They are in Newton right where 128 and the mass pike cross. The exit off 128 is tricky/confusing, so get directions off the web site and follow them carefully.
Also, the web site Paddling.net has a lot of info. check out product reviews although most people seem to rave about whatever boat they own so perhaps you can't take it too seriously?
Skip
Also, the web site Paddling.net has a lot of info. check out product reviews although most people seem to rave about whatever boat they own so perhaps you can't take it too seriously?
Skip
Current Designs Solstice GT HV
Old Town Nantucket
Old Town Nantucket
another small opinion....
think about what kind of water you want to play in too.
then balance primary versus secondary stability when you demo.
the boat that feels solid the minute you sit in it will probably be a bit on the sluggish side as your skill improves but will make you feel confident in the begining.
something edgier will make you feel more in control as you develop.
sigh.... so many choices....
think about what kind of water you want to play in too.
then balance primary versus secondary stability when you demo.
the boat that feels solid the minute you sit in it will probably be a bit on the sluggish side as your skill improves but will make you feel confident in the begining.
something edgier will make you feel more in control as you develop.
sigh.... so many choices....
Lanterne Rouge - C'est moi!
Thanks for all the great advice. You were all correct of course. My limitted budget helped narrow down my decision on what to get. If I grow out of it quickly then I'll have a boat for one of my sons or wife to use and I'll move up.
I ended up getting a Venture Kayaks Easky 15 with skeg from Doug Gray at Billington Sea on no tax weekend. (It is 15' long, 23.5" wide, 50lbs., $945.)
I tried boats at Charles River as well and I considered taking a ride up to Seacoast Kayak in Seabrook NH for their going out of business sale but ended up deciding not to bother as I'd rather support our local South Shore business that hopefully will be around for a while.
I tried some other boats, but found the Easky to fit my current budget and needs for the rest of this season. I don't see myself gaining enough confidence to head out on big water till next summer. I need to learn a lot about wet exits (which I imagine are pretty easy) and the more important paddle assisted reentry and stuff like that. (I did buy a paddle float and nylon spray skirt.)
I'll be sticking to the edges of lakes till I get a chance to practice the essential safety skills. I plan to attend the rest of the Thursday night skills sessions in Hanson since I'm just a few miles away in Abington.
Thanks for the help and advice and hope to see you in Hanson.
Norm
I ended up getting a Venture Kayaks Easky 15 with skeg from Doug Gray at Billington Sea on no tax weekend. (It is 15' long, 23.5" wide, 50lbs., $945.)
I tried boats at Charles River as well and I considered taking a ride up to Seacoast Kayak in Seabrook NH for their going out of business sale but ended up deciding not to bother as I'd rather support our local South Shore business that hopefully will be around for a while.
I tried some other boats, but found the Easky to fit my current budget and needs for the rest of this season. I don't see myself gaining enough confidence to head out on big water till next summer. I need to learn a lot about wet exits (which I imagine are pretty easy) and the more important paddle assisted reentry and stuff like that. (I did buy a paddle float and nylon spray skirt.)
I'll be sticking to the edges of lakes till I get a chance to practice the essential safety skills. I plan to attend the rest of the Thursday night skills sessions in Hanson since I'm just a few miles away in Abington.
Thanks for the help and advice and hope to see you in Hanson.
Norm